Paul O'Dwyer (1907-1998), 1990-1991

[05:48] How far along have you gotten with forming this committee?

[06:33] Do you have any idea at all why you think there was no opposition that you mentioned before?

[08:15] Have you anyone on your committee that's been in Panama recently?

[08:35] So you have a fact gathering committee in effect?

[10:52] What state was that?

[14:18] May I ask you what year this was?

[17:25] Was this before or after that incident? When you were down there and you tried this case?

[17:44] You took certain precautions that you've mentioned - what was your state of mind at that time when you were down there?

[19:11] What office was she running for?

[20:28] You constantly refer to 'we,' so you obviously weren't there by yourself. Could you tell us who else was a part of your group?

[22:14] She graduated from where?

[23:35] Was it just that they [African Americans] were inexperienced in voting or were they also afraid?

[24:32] Am I to understand then that you went down at different times during the sixties and for certain lengths of times? 2 weeks? 3 weeks? Longer?

[25:52] This was a somewhat organized movement then that you were a part of?

[08:48] We're just establishing here that Mr. O'Dwyer did not belong to a specific organization at that time. It's just a matter of record.

[12:04] Was this priest of a local parish? That was his function? He was a local parish priest?

[12:26] And they worked alone - these parish priests?

[13:01] Am I correct in assuming when you say that out of the 125 priests in Mississippi 75 of them were from Ireland? Do you know the reason why?

[13:34] So they actually then imported the priests from Ireland?

[13:57] And were these priests, these Irish priests, were they volunteers to this community?

Questions RE: Trip to Sunflower, MS with the purpose of convincing African Americans that voting works. Stayed in the home of Mrs. King, an African American woman whose house was firebombed because she accommodated freedom riders. His stay with her and more on her situation.

[18:23] By what means did you get these accommodations? What network was working for you then?

[19:48] This is in the north of Mississippi now? Where you were staying with her?

[23:01] Did you sleep well that night?

[27:57] What type of trouble? Specifically?

[29:32] Did you meet with a lot of opposition in those days?

[29:41] I mean something outright - that you were told to go home, stay out of our state, anything in that…?

[2:40] But these young people must have been very frightened. They didn't? I was going to ask how you allayed their fears, but…?

[3:04] It seemed to be maybe more of an adventure to them?

[10:21] When you were representing, defending people, down in Mississippi, who did your paperwork?

[10:41] Mostly done in New York then?

[10:57] But what if you had to make various changes and stuff?

[11:12] Nobody would actually say, "Come in - use my office" while you were there. There was no such thing as that?

Questions RE: O'Dwyer's experiences as a child in Ireland during the Black and Tan/War of Independence.

[11:47] Where were your training grounds to do this kind of work and where did your desire come from within you?

[12:42] How old were you at that time?

Questions RE: Case of eight unemployed white miners charged with blowing up the entrance to a mine in Hazard, Kentucky. Work with Dan Jack Coombs, the only lawyer in Kentucky who would take the case. Attitude of local judge.

[24:45] Do you know what denomination the preacher was?

[26:20] These young boys - their illiteracy was perpetuated over time then. You have mentioned before that they were the result of settlers that had settled a long time ago. Is that correct?

[26:36] And so they continued with this illiterate form throughout the age - even as recently as the seventies?

[27:02] Do you know what prevented them from getting an education? Were there just not enough schools in that area?

[27:29] Just following the Bible and listening to the local preacher would be enough?

[28:14] He was your campaign manager when you were running for which office?

[28:50] Did you feel that these businesses - your clients - that they were, the illiterate ones particularly, were they content with their lives other than this situation that came about? Did they seem like they were happy people?

[12:57] Did you meet any Jewish people in Russia at that time who were accomplished and educated?

[15:44] What did you feel at that time?

[16:08] Whose home was this?

[16:22] Do you remember what school he was working at?

[18:10] This is with the young boy? So that nothing could be reported or retained? You had to keep everything in your minds?

[18:27] It was just a toy here - my children have those.

[18:38] Had you brought that with you or was that supplied to you in Russia?

[18:55] Is it possible that that was used as a tool in school for the children similar to the old fashioned slate? And also save paper?

[20:36] Did they actually call it hooliganism?

[21:45] Who told you this? Did Mr. Feldman? You never met him?

[21:58] You never met him because he had this brush with this woman and…?

[22:41] What was his profession? Do you recall?

[23:29] Was it from that record that you found out what happened to him or were you told by his relatives as well?

[28:59] So your friend had no way of knowing exactly why you weren't going to Kiev but just that word came back, "There's no plane going to Kiev."

[29:42] The one and only cinema in Moscow?

[07:09] So, actually, the only thing they knew about their heritage and everything would have been from what the old people would have told them. But they couldn't practice it or…?

[07:23] They held a lot back?

[07:53] So, actually mingling in with the rest of society?

[08:33] Was there a restriction on the age limit? You said only the older people were going to the synagogue?

[08:40] So it was just a known thing. You were a certain age at a certain time, you could go and practice, but if you weren't, stay away?

[09:02] So there was no underground religion at all going on there?

[12:16 ] Do you recall who this sponsor person was?

[12:23] What was his political affiliation at the time?

[07:23] Do you remember the name of the organization that you were working with?

[10:01] Was your partner, Mr. Bernstien, from your firm, also part of this?

[11:54] Of the hundred people that were given these medals, were they mostly of Jewish extraction?

[15:59] What years were you both in office together?

[19:06] Why do you think that?

[06:31] Talking about New York, and I know you have a certain fondness in your voice when you speak of New York, and you're originally from Ireland, and we all know how fond you are of Ireland. Would you say that your feelings for both countries are equal?

Questions RE: O'Dwyer's feelings about U.S. and Ireland

[10:00-20:00] O'Dwyer continues his answer to the question about his feelings towards the U.S. and Ireland. He speaks of how Ireland is still under tyranny and oppression and how he believes the antagonism between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland is not a natural state for either side, but has been developed and fostered as a means of British supremacy.O'Dwyer explains his views on why he did not get reelected as President of the New York City Council. One of the most significant reasons being the development of the women's rights movement.The day after the election, O'Dwyer received a call from David Horowitz, who asked for help because he was being sued by a Hungarian Nazi named Koreh. Horowitz had a small newspaper that supplied news to Jewish communities in the U.S. that were not in the mainstream. Koreh sued Horowitz for libel because the paper reported that Koreh was responsible for killing 100,000 Jews in Transylvania and that he used to ride a white horse and shoot Jews.

[25:40] Which area was that?

[29:27] This was at the examination before trial or actually at trial?

[07:27] Could he [Brian O'Dwyer] help explain to you why the doctors protected their own? Was it just a protective profession or…?

[10:46] What year was it that you [left City Council?] …was that 1978?

[16:05] Where was he [Charlie Keith] actually born?

[27:12] Wouldn't you say in Ireland they've had it [British rule?] longer than anywhere else? They go back 800 - 900 years

[18:14] They [prisoners in Long Kesh] were allowed to go to church?

[01:45] Why do you think they allowed ____?

[02:34] This is done as a routine?

[06:17] Do you think that they could have planned, members of the IRA, at the time when before their members get arrested - because they anticipate being arrested - the Irish Catholics anticipate this, this is a way of life for them in the North - that they would maybe learn how to network in the prison beforehand or know of the methods in the event that they got caught?

[22:35] Where did the funding come from? All from the trust?

[22:57] So the Cheshire trust name had nothing to do with Cheshire except that he established the program and then method?

[04:21] How large is the home?

[04:32] Is that a standard for Cheshire homes?

[06:05] What type, what actual type of people are taken in there?

[07:49] Then are most of these people physically disabled, but not mentally disabled?

[13:00] So that room was used then by all of these factions at any given time? It's more or less been a community center?

[13:17] And then the residents of Cheshire house then have an activity from time to time, so it serves two great purposes?

[16:29] Where did you have this meeting?

[26:09] Where was Lowenstein originally from?

[31:50] Where did you end up having the meeting?

[18:51] What was the reason, do you think, for that? [ attitudes of Catholic students]

[28:35] What were they actually protesting at that time?

[31:56] How many young people were out there protesting? Thousands?

[05:27] What was her name again?

[07:10] This is the 196…? [1964 convention]

[15:13] How strong were you?

[15:20] Everyone with a candle?

[18:19] So everything went peaceful from then on?

[05:01] What did you feel at that time?

[06:59] Is there anything in particular that went on in that plane ride?

[12:21] Around what time is this?

[22:55] How did Pat Darby get them? [figures about Northern Irish companies and split between Catholic vs. Protestant workers]

[23:35] So he had a good sense of investigation. When you said before that you had to tell from the school that they came from whether they were Catholic or Protestant, so he had to do a lot of work?

[25:05] What would that law have been? [That would have made companies break the law to conform to new rules]

[03:50] Were they all from the Texas area?

[04:45] They were all from Manhattan then?

[12:34] Who coined the phrase the "Fort Worth Five?"

[22:00] It's sort of an Irish shorthand, wouldn't you say?

[29:05] That was for each individual? [$25,000 bail]

[02:05] You mentioned that they were 11 months already that they had served in jail. That was before they got the bail?

[22:41] When he went back he was free then?

[31:24] Where is he living now?

[02:12] Which prison was this in?

[27:48] What was the year that it [Brehon Law Society] was established?

[29:39] Are all these British colonies?

[27:09] Wasn't there a parade, though, up in Boston, Massachusetts in those days, or is this trying to say that New York had the first St. Patrick's Day parade?

[29:29] You tried to get Joe Doherty as honorary chairman of the New York parade, but were unsuccessful. Isn't it true at that time that he was honorary chairman in many parades this past year, 1990?

[30:56] Is this at the St. Patrick's Day committee meeting? You're a member of that then?

[01:59] At this point he's been in jail for over seven years?

[07:41] What do you think the reason is for that [Doherty not criticizing U.S.] ?

[08:30] May I ask you what a bucket shop is?

[12:43] Did the Guild start in New York or in California?

[13:11] What about the year that they started?

[18:19] Did the Civil Liberties Union do anything for the Irish Community that you recall?

[19:35] The National Lawyers Guild wasn't in existence then [1916-1922] of course. Where do they tie in to having an effect on the Irish community?So now we have subsequent members that are of Irish extraction and working for the Irish cause?

[21:12] Mary Murphy, the lady that you referred to, what was her role at that time?

[02:49] Was the National Guild involved in this situation?

[08:48] Had he [Murray Gordon] already sent the letter in?

[09:48] How long were you actually estranged from them?

[20:00] Did you have a role in any of this? [either group going to N.I.]

[21:50] Long after the film? And the visit? [NLG report from N.I.]

[30:18] Which sister was this?

[09:48] Who conceived of that idea? [reforestation as an investment for the O'Dwyer-Cheshire home]

[13:58] They were environmental corps [that David Waters runs] ?

[18:03] How narrow a strip was it?

[24:32] Who is left in charge in Ireland? You said you were going to use local people? Is there a committee formed locally?

[30:34] About how old were you then?

[04:57] Why to you think that is? [O'Dwyer's inability to raise funds for his own campaigns]

[05:30] I can understand that feeling, but don't you think it's a little more? You said it's easy for you, or easier for you, to ask for funds for someone else. I think that's true of some of us. Do you think that would have to do with, just your whole life? Your defense of others?

[09:42] What created the link between you and the Jewish community to begin with, do you remember? Was it because of your partnership with Oscar Bernstien?

[15:25] Who was this? [The student who introduced O'Dwyer to study group]

[19:23] Did you study only with Jewish students?

[23:05] Is Tom Paine one of your favorite authors?

[23:36] This is Oscar Bernstien?

[26:30] How did all of these relationships that you developed over the years with the Jewish community have an effect on your relationship with the Irish community? How did they come together if and when they did?

[18:00] Why do you think that he [Senator Weinstein] went out for it [McBride bill] ?

[09:14] They are going to build this house in Cork City?

[10:41] In Belfast? Is there only one [synagogue] ?

[13:58] This Jewish prosecutor - did you find out, was he brought into Belfast or was he originally from there?

[21:55] Would you call them a type of gypsy?

[22:29] Where did they originally come from?

[24:25] Because they lived by moving around and they just learned from their way of life, or were they formally educated?

[25:34] They're called travelers today?

[11:58] The indigenous group - the travelers - are they known for committing crimes throughout Ireland?

[07:17] This is ambassador who? From?

[09:05] What date was this?

[10:19] This was related to the [Desmond] Ellis incident?

[12:01] Do you recall, who else was at this meeting besides the mayor and yourself?

[12:17] Now when you spoke, you spoke and addressed the whole 350 so they all heard this discussion?

[12:27] Press meaning who [was in attendance at the mayor's gathering] ?

[12:47] Was the New York Times represented?

[16:13] You considered yourself…you're talking about 'we.' What do you mean by 'we?'

[24:57] They [bar committee] held him [Gustin Reichvach] a year before admitting him?

[25:03] What made them turn around?

[00:50] Abe Bergis or this other fellow [was a supporter of the IRA] ?

[01:00] Was he Irish? This was a Jewish man who was a strong defender of the IRA?

[03:08] When you poll the jury - can you explain exactly how you do that?

[05:06] What made you poll the jury in this instance?

[06:06] What was Judge Reichvach's affiliation with the Irish community if he had any?

[02:02] Why did they [parade committee] think you were out of order specifically?

[04:36] They also were not allowed to march?

[07:17] Imported for the occasion do you mean, or you're just stating that they're immigrants.

[10:15] So what you were trying to do was prevent this from happening?

[10:21] Does the mayor's office always hire the same St. Patrick's Day committee?

[10:54] And the mayor always marches in the parade. Isn't that a fact?

[12:43] About how much of an extension would that have amount to, an hour, two hours?

[16:15] They accepted exactly what? That the mayor would walk in front of them, that there would be no sign indicating who they were, but everybody would know because the mayor had made mention that he would do this?

[17:10] Who was the grand marshal this year?

[17:24] And how far back was Division 7?

[17:33] And how many hours was the whole parade?

[18:] With the other 39 of the 40 units?

[00:18] Where was the village?

[10:19] Do you think that education system had a lot to do with giving Irish Americans identity?

[19:16] This was the chairman of the House of Representatives?

[20:14] Was this the book called Beyond the Melting Pot?

[20:28] It's used to teach in colleges. It's very widely read.

[04:24] In what particular sport [did Martin Sheridan compete] ?

[15:07] So they lost their formal structure, so to speak, but they still maintained their social status?

[15:29] When there was pride how many [attended the Gaelic Games] ?

[15:39] Do you recall how many teams there were?

[21:29] Was there ever any international competition between Argentina and the U.S. or New York and Ireland?

[00:00] More on Athletics. O'Dwyer's argument to Col. Sydney Bingham, head of transit system for New York City, to save field. Bingham's intervention and saving the land. By 1990/1991, the city again wanted to sell the land and Manhattan College was still interested. Change in attitudes of leaders of Gaelic Athletic Association since the 1940s and 1950s.19 April 1991Update on situation. Meeting on 17 April to sell land to Manhattan College. Conflict between parties over the issue of when lockers and shower rooms would be constructed by the O'Donnells. Resolution of conflict.

[01:58] Was this throughout Ireland or were the head schools mainly in the West?

[03:42] Was this a newspaper for New Yorkers primarily?

[04:21] Was there a large Irish community in Utah?

[16:39] About how long was that paper in existence? Do you recall around the time it started?

[18:25] Was the Clan na Gael established here or in Ireland?

[21:02] Why is that [that Communists were the best organizers] ?

[26:59] What was your affiliation at this time with Michael Quill and the railroad union?

[13:40] Is Ms. [________] the CIO?

[20:51] What was the medal? What did it mean?

[09:35] Were you involved at all indirectly or directly in helping people adopt babies from Ireland?

[18:40] Had he [Connie Neil] lived in New York?

[19:14] How many books of tickets did he leave you with?

[20:16] So the agents then expand across the miles, these numbered agents, they were also in Ireland? At least their centers were in Ireland?

[01:30] Do we know offhand who was the first ethnic group to have a radio show?

[03:20] Why [was John McMichael murdered] ?

[12:07] Was this because you were afraid of losing the traditional Irish music through this Irish Americanism?

[16:19] Have you met her [Sinead O'Connor] ?

[19:12] The Irish Arts Center also teaches things such as the flute, is that right? And other Irish instruments?

[25:46] These people, the travelers, they never emigrate do they?

[25:52] Do they come to New York?

[26:15] How do they contact each other if they're moving around all of the time? They certainly don't have mailing addresses, or do they…?

[07:07] Where did Angela find the book, do you know?

[00:04] Around what year?

[14:30] It's almost like the United Nations reaches out?

[04:03] What next for Paul O'Dwyer? Will you retire when you are ready to leave this position?

[05:46] To what extent will you go back to the practice of law?

[07:56] Or the case that they were promptly working on and have it relate directly to that, rather than the overall advice, that's what you're saying?

[08:24] Did you learn that way yourself?

[08:27] And who taught you that method?

[08:47] It sounds like you're looking forward to this.

[20:05] Do you think they were all afraid of catching the poison ivy?

[20:19] Why weren't you [afraid] if you were allergic to it?

[22:37] What is this wash called, do you recall?

[23:52] It falls under your category of 'activities' as you mentioned to me before. Your hobbies then fall under the category of 'activities' and they can be either on an intellectual, academic side or a physical side. There are many different things. Whatever interests you at the time?

[24:18] Tell us a little bit about your recent trip to Ireland. I believe you were there in September?

[26:44] A&S the department store?

[06:30] So the French pocket was outside of Roscommon?

[06:40] And this all took place in September?

[10:42] So now they're allowed to be part of their own management and have more control over their own affairs and their lives?

[14:34] Which sister is this?

[15:59] Right off the side of the main part of town?

[17:07] What is it today that's currently bringing the Irish and their relatives out en force?

[18:10] Isn't that back in the 1920s and 1930s?

[01:07] What do they [the Irish] come out for to New York en masse? We started to discuss Dancing at Lughnasa, which is the recent paly that is currently being performed at the Plymouth Theatre by the Abbey Theatre Players.

[05:54] Tell us please about what is happening on December 9 this year.

[06:36] Do you know exactly who he [William Brown] was wined and dined by in London?

[00:35] When did the McBride principles start?

[16:46] What time frame was this?

[00:49] What does PN stand for?

[07:23] You had never met a black man with an Irish name before?

[10:02] Is that the area that was known as Hell's Kitchen?

[14:32 ] The English prisoners?

[19:17] Where was it [Sailor's Snug Harbor] located?

[19:42] So it was actually a home for old sailors, is that what we're talking about?

[19:56] Because he never sailed on an American vessel?

[27:41] Are you talking about Irish women and prostitution?

[29:30] They were coerced into a brothel when they came off the ships, is that what you are saying?

[30:06] In other words, he would shelter them in the church. What about young men?

[00:00 -10:00] More on Irish American crime. Rise out of poverty and into society. Effects of poverty on Irish American community. Five Points neighborhood.Irish Americans in politics. Discipline in schools.[08:20] Would you offer an alternative to that kind of discipline?

[09:11] Did your own parents demand discipline to a point?

[27:45] So, what you're predicting then is any politician, not just the Irish, are going to have to go for human rights in general and not have it attached to any nationality or any race that eventually will all really will melt together?